John Cooper Clarke (notes from a BBC interview)
/In this post, there is a list of the advanced words and phrases from the BBC Radio 4 Desert Island Discs interview with John Cooper Clarke. He is a poet who performed his work during the punk era. Aggie and I are currently creating a podcast (in which we will explain some of the words) and it will be launched on 11th October!
You can listen to the interview here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000701x
INTRO BY LL
0:49 Nicknamed the bard of Salford
First started writing poems at age 12, by 14 all he wanted to do
1:01 Although the reality wasn’t exactly Wordsworth’s ‘emotion recollected in tranquility’
1:12 He went on to earn his stripes by being showered in phlegm and beer bottles
And shared the stage with the likes of the sex pistols… susie and the banshees
1:20 He has been punk’s poet laureate ever since
He says that poetry is the art that everyone has a go at, you don’t need lots of expensive equipment or a musical instrument. All you need is imagination and a pen
WHAT MAKES A GOOD POEM
1:43 Its the kiss of death to over analyse what you do
1:59 A guy who I found very inspiring as a lad
“Things like that, that’s poetry” After reciting the tree poem
INSPIRATION
2:34 Unlikely subjects is a good one, y’know talking something up
2:39 The kind of things people ignore
2:52 [LL] Finding the universal in the particular?
Writes in response to public anxiety, but not political. Why?
3:05 The poetry and the politics suffer for it
3:08 Anybody that can be converted to a particular worldview because of a poem… looking in wrong places
3:18 To hitch your poetry to any political wagon is a mistake
→ because poetry is forever
3:24 You write a poem and its out there and you can’t unwrite it
FIRST TRACK (AND HIS LIST) “A QUIET PLACE”
3:34 [LL] I understand you’ve been compiling your DID list for quite a number of years now
3:42 I’ll probably change my mind
3:46 I’ve revised this list for 60 years, I’ve been a fan of the show for that long
3:59 [LL] It is a sensational list
How important I feel this show is to be. I say poetry is forever, as is DID
4:30 DID has all the finality of a suicide note
4:37 Without the actual obligation of topping yourself
4:40 As you can see I’m a coconut half empty kind of guy
4:48 [LL] The music’s not like that, luckily it’s an uplifting selection of tracks
4:51 With that in mind
5:02 Terrifying as the prospect of this abject loneliness is for me
GROWING UP
A piece of advice from your dad can you remember?
1 was never work for nothing
6:03 Even if its a flaky job like I’ve got
6:10 And the other one was never leave a bookies with a smile on your face
DAD
An engineer
6:24 A real good geezer
MUM
6:31 My mum was a living saint
I get my love of reading from her
We’d have 5 books out at a time from the public library
6:51 She was kind of at a loss and I guess I was her movie date (Dad away all the time)
I had to see what they call women’s pictures with her
I could always find something to enjoy in them → the men’s clothes
7:43 Wouldn’t appear in any gent’s outfitters
SALFORD
Our apartment gave out onto what without a doubt must have been the busiest crossroads in the North of England
7:57 Pre motorways so it was all commercial, y’know chocca
I loved it, I didn’t know any different
Movie theatres within walking distance. I hate walking
8:15 [LL] You got TB when you were 8 and sent to live with your Aunt
The biggest industrial complex outside of the Soviet Union (so had to be moved away)
8:42 We weren’t made of money
8:46 Then was a flourishing holiday resort (this place in North Wales)
8:53 I was feral, turfed out of the house at 10 not expected back till teatime
9:00 We used to knock around the fairground
9:03 [LL] What was the lure of that then, the sound systems?
9:08 All the good stuff
SECOND TRACK (A WHOLE LOT OF SHAKING GOING ON)
9:17 What a mover!
SCHOOL
Missed out on a lot of school but don’t feel like I missed anything. Hated it
10:21 Anything that took me out of there was okay by me
10:23 But I’m glad I learnt to read
10:25 And I’m glad they rammed those facts down my reluctant throat when they did
10:35 Never been a team player
On every school report - No team spirit
[LL] You did have one teacher who inspired you, your English teacher
10:50 He was a rugged outdoor type
11:01 He would return in September after Summer with some injury that he’d incurred from indulging in some outdoor pursuit, mountaineering, water skiing…
11:09 It did offer this weakness of Romantic poetry of 19th century
11:16 He conveyed so that the entire class
11:22 It wasn’t the kind of school where you’d expect them to be overly receptive to poetry
11:28 Put it this way, we had our own coroner!
11:31 He imparted his love of this poetry to the whole class
11:38 Until it became a hothouse of poetic competition
11:44 It was a badge of honour to use polysyllabic speech at all times
11:49 It was amazing how it caught on
But I was the best at it!!
11:55 So that’s where I flourished
Edward Allan Poe, we had to learn it 12:06 off by heart, Michael Gove style
That’s the only way to do it!
You’re not going to understand it, he’s a 40 year old guy, you’re 12!
12:22 Come back to it in 30 years and it’s amazing how it makes its mark
Found his entire body of work had been translated into French by someone else (Charles Baudelaire)
12:39 That was a name I remembered and so I resolved to read his poetry and translation and ever since then he’s been without a doubt my number one guy poetry wise
EARLY POEMS
12:57 Got a commission to write a poem about an Ideal homes exhibition
Irons etc, things had a yearly update
13:25 It was top notch
13:31 [LL] A hymn to labour saving devices
13:38 My parents had an aversion to higher purchase
Like most working class people in the 50s they were terrified of debt
13:52 To me it was a wonderland of treasures
THIRD DISC (DIONE AND THE BELMONTS)
14:04 I love doo wop music
Went to see her in 1961
EARLY JOBS
· Lab technician
· Fire watcher
Continued writing throughout
15:17 [LL] You were convinced that poetry as entertainment would work, why were you so convinced
Why doesn’t it belong in the entertainment business
15:42 Take back to days in Edwardian music hall would really fly in the music halls of Whitechapel and beyond
15:53 There was always the evidence of it, the ghost of poetry (Stanley Holloway)
Singers that didn’t sing, they spoke it
16:22 That was validation (Watching Opportunity Knocks)
16:36 Schlepping from one coffee house to another
16:43 The life of a useless flâneur can be yours
16:49 That was the life for me, an idle
16:58 They’d say, nobody makes a living out of poetry
TS Elliot bank clerk etc, all had other jobs
17:15 Or a generous stipend from Oxford University
17:24 It was the only life I’d settle for frankly
Pam Ayres on Opportunity Knocks as a poet and every week GB Public were voting her back so “There you are, why not me!”
FIRST PAID GIG
17:51 [LL] Your first paid gig came in the early 1970s
17:56 [LL] Courtesy of Bernard Manning in Manchester
17:58 [LL] How did you persuade him to book you?
17:59 Judicious choice of poem
18:12 They don’t like poetry here, half of them can’t bleeping read
18:19 Its nothing too high flown Mr Manning
Read a line about a punch-up in a club BM would know well and then he gave him a chance
18:56 I was met with the poet’s worst enemy - indifference
Everyone talking to each other :(
19:18 You ended up getting residency at Mr Smiths
Took it into the centre of town
19:57 I didn’t look like a hippy, narrow trousers ..
PUNK SHOWS
20:09 Pretty bracing back in those days
20:14 What was it like performing for that crowd once the scene took off
20:19 It wasn’t all dodgy, bottles and phlegm that didn’t last very long
The concerns in my poems were singing from the same hymn sheet as the punk rock world
Poetry is the shortest way of conveying something really big
What my poems had in common with these artists
21:03 Broadly social, abrasive at times
The lyrical style of punk
21:16 I found great kinship, particularly with the Ramones
FOURTH DISC (ELLA FITZGERALD)
21:36 A nice piece of escapism on the island
You’d miss the voice of a woman on the island
ALBUMS
22:38 Top 40 hit with Gimmicks
How did you feel about your life at that point
22:47 It was in the upward trajectory but it got a bit out of my hands at that point to be honest
22:51 It became an ensemble piece with musicians
None of whom I knew very well
It sounds like one of my feet’s been nailed to the floor
23:24 Thats the edgy part of it
I love singing, that’s why I drink
END OF CAREER ?
23:43 [LL saying that he said:] The taming of punk was the kiss of death 1980s
23:48 Wasn’t there a place for you in the age of the music video?
It was all over
23:52 Everybody was conspicuous
I never stopped working
24:11 I was doing smaller joints
· Never stopped writing
DRUG ADDICTION
Developed a heroin addiction that lasted 17 years
24:31 I’m being sarcastic with myself
24:38 It was the centre of your universe
24:49 There’s not really any point in dwelling on it (every addict is the same person)
Needed money more than ever so worked more than ever
25:00 The glamour was flaking off with every new job
25:03 Felt like I was selling my sorry ass
25:12 It was a tedious saying amongst the hippies
→ If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem
And I was very much part of the problem
Quit in 2 ways, both gradually and suddenly
Were you scared for yourself at any point?
I didn’t want to quit, I don’t think anyone does. I felt really badly done to
You feel you’re doing it for society, was doing everyone a favour as they were worried.
Who wants to be a source of anxiety?
FIFTH DISC (NICO)
26:51 Enigmatic wouldn’t be too big a word for it
27:02 The allure never wears off no matter how many times you listen to it
Lived together for a bit in Brixton
28:06 I don’t know too many people who can drop names like that
RECOVERY
28:09 [LL] You had to force yourself to write in your recovery
Took a long time to get back into it
28:36 The poetry I write now is so markedly different and superior
29:00 [LL] To know you still had the touch
SECOND WIFE
29:17 I heard that you bonded over a copy of Les Fleurs du Mal
A language teacher who’s favourite poet is Charles Baudelaire
DAUGHTER STELLA
If I’d known how fun having a child would be I would have had 17
29:57 I was very late to it, 45.
All my mates had kids and they’d say ‘never have kids’
30:22 My daughter is as anybody would say, special
SIXTH DISC (FRANK SINATRA)
What’s life without Sinatra?
30:56 That’s the kind of thing you’d like to be musing over on a sweltering island (The ski trails)
31:48 Conjuring up another beautiful musical vista
GEOGRAPHICAL REVERIES
31:55 The geographical reveries that I’ve included here - not sure all your guests take into account the context
32:26 Sorry for cutting in here
32:34 Nobody’s ever picked the theme music
RETURN TO SUCCESS
33:07 Over the end credits of an episode of The Sopranos in 2007 (Poem: Evidently Chickentown)
33:12 A big turning point for you
33:16 Coming to the end of the wilderness years
I didn’t have any representation so no idea. So glad they took the law into their own hands
33:29 My goodness that opens doors
Introduced to Plan B so collaborated with him on an album
Also an adapted version of a poem on Arctic Monkeys album AM
33:53 [LL] How did that come about?
ARCTIC MONKEYS
34:00 The proprietor said oh would you just speak to these lads
They’re big fans, they’ve done your stuff at school (at GCSEs!)
34:27 That’s a terrific name
34:33 Immediately that’s a dichotomy, that’s gonna stick in your end
Very polite nice kids
34:44 I couldn’t be happier with their cover of I’m yours
34:54 [LL] People call it your comeback
35:09 Sort of elusive shadowy figure in the punk rock scene
35:12 Now pretty mainstream, you’d have to have lived in a cave for 3 years
SEVENTH TRACK (DORIS DAY)
35:40 Driving through a blizzard
35:51 The first golden vision of womanhood
PARENTS SUCCESS
36:57 Not at this high octane level that I am today
37:08 I’m sure she would have been as thrilled as I (with DID)
37:24 I think I’ve created a platform, it’s a legitimate thing now to write poetry and read it
YOUNG POET ADVICE
You have to be idle to write it
37:58 Those are the 3 requisites of writing (pen, paper, idleness)
EIGHTH DISC (ELVIS PRESLEY)
Greatest singer that ever lived
38:17 The zenith of male beauty
38:27 Contemplate the nature of eternity and there’s only one singer with the vocal equipment to do this
CASTAWAY
Not the most practical but not a suicidal bone in my body
Would try to construct an antebellum mansion out of palm fronds and shells
Book - against nature (Talks through paintings, better than going to an art gallery)
40:06 It’s so rich you can only read it 3 pages at a time
Luxury - a boulder of opium twice the size of my head
Illegal substances have previously been allowed
Chosen track - Elvis!