Dame Glenys Stacey
/In this post, there is a list of the advanced words and phrases from the BBC Radio 4 Desert Island Discs interview with Dame Glenys Stacey. She is a regulator and worked as Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector of Probation. Aggie and I are currently creating a podcast (in which we will explain some of the words) and it will be launched on 1st Nov!
You can listen to the interview here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0009jf1
INTRO
40 years in public service
Her job to tell the government truths they don’t want to hear
Specialises in invisible work
0:56 That underpins many of the assumptions we make every day
1:01 Our justice system fit for purpose
1:06 Her job is to create a system of checks and balances that can withstand crises
1:10 and the political vicissitudes of any given moment
1:13 In a world where quangos
1:14 watchdogs, and select committees don’t always get the best press
Powerful advocate for their ability to hold institutions to account
1:25 You walk into chaotic situations and make order out of them
WHY THIS JOB
If you can give help
1:51 Sort out some of those grizzly problems → satisfying
Things can get better!
Never told in the interview what the issues are, have to get through the door and find out
NASTY PROBLEMS WITHIN ORGANISATIONS
2:15 Ever been any particularly nasty skeletons? [LL]
2:20 Organisation is ludicrously underfunded
2:29 Often involve some rather testing conversations with ministers
2:37 Criminal case review commission - first chief executive
2:39 Set up from scratch
2:41 terribly exciting to be looking at
2:44 miscarriages of justice
Funding presumption that you could do these reviews in 3 days!
Some cases arriving in great furniture vans
SERIAL REGULATOR
3:06 described as a serial regulator
Huge variety of institutions and sectors
3:22 You need a jolly good tool bag
You bring something to the party but also use the people working alongside with the technical knowledge
Knowing what you’re talking about does matter!
3:43 Knowing what you’re talking about - underrated [LL]
FIRST TRACK ‘Loch Lomond’
4:00 such fond memories of Scotland as a child
4:06 we were shipped off to Glasgow for the holidays
A freedom up there
4:20 thought cousins were stylish and edgy and fun
4:26 Getting up in the middle of the night and raiding the kitchen
Making crisps, frying up potatoes at 2am! Great fun
CHIEF INSPECTOR OF PROBATION
5:23 You just stood down at the end of your 5 year term as her majesty’s ^^
5:26 Chief Inspector
5:27 of Probation
Challenges?
5:33 The way probation is being delivered at the moment simply doesn’t cut it
5:38 Inspecting some really rather dismal performance
Make sure inspectorate itself could inspect well enough and fairly enough
5:48 To check they’re Making really solid valid decisions
Set standards for probation
6:02 thrown expectations out of the window
→ what good probation should actually look like??
Persuading government that privatising much of probation was not working out
PRIVATISING PROBATION
6:14 in privatising much of probation
System was part privatised in 2014, private companies started monitoring
6:27 lower/medium risk…
6:28… offenders [LL]
6:31 irredeemably flawed (according to Glenys’ report) [LL]
Quarter of a million people are subject to probation services per year
Negative impact in lots of ways, more people on streets, more people living in fear of next assault (domestic abuse)
7:12 Social implications of poor probation services are quite profound
Tend to focus on the simple issue of reoffending
7:28 Government has decided to move towards a unified model
7:34 a state-run service (provided through national probation service)
7:38 More consistent model for probation delivery
→ will be at a higher standard but tricky to achieve
FIX SENTENCING SYSTEM
8:03 fix the sentencing system [LL] Tory party promise
8:18 People may have less of a commitment to reforming their lives
8:22 May be some resentment built up from prison time
SECOND TRACK (‘Scarlett Ribbons’)
8:28 A really old ditty
An important song when I was a small child
8:48 Father would belt this out
HOME LIFE
1954 in West Midlands
9:43 Your dad was a crooner
An important lesson whilst you were listening to your father singing
I said “it must be great to enjoy your job so much”
He said “No actually I hate it, but it’s what I do to earn a living”
A real shock to me at the time
They worked to achieve things
10:21 I lived on a council estate
My mother was the only woman I knew who worked, she worked in a factory
Would go in caravan to Weston Supermare every other weekend
10:40 They were purposeful in building a good life for us
CHILDHOOD INTERESTS
Desperate for a dog
Went to library a lot, was allowed to get anything using her ticket
10:54 I got into a bit of deep water once when I got Byron
A great English teacher
11:22 Books that give you the opportunity to see life from a different perspective
MOVE TO SOMERSET
11:27 When you were a teenager, quite a tricky age to relocate? [LL]
Shock to the system
11:33 Had been at quite a progressive school
Then moved to a girls grammar school
11:42 That was a bit of a struggle
11:49 we were natural soul mates (Mary, moved from London at the same time)
Both loved music, would save up for concerts
THIRD DISC (T REX)
So different + gorgeous
Went to a concert and were invited backstage
Didn’t go because Mary’s dad was waiting patiently in the car outside
12:26 We were a bit thwarted
SCHOOL
Described self as living embodiment of social mobility
13:23 I wasn’t that bright at school
13:29 Our class was told that we were never going to get anywhere
Because of their west midlands accents!
I thought “Nevermind!” Not very ambitious
PARENTS THOUGHTS
Parents proud when I passed 11+
Expected me to leave after my O levels
That’s what women did !
EARLY JOBS
14:06 An explosives manufacturing factory
I didn’t cover myself in glory there
Saw advertisement in paper for Trainee Legal Executives
14:28 Thought that sounded really grand
14:32 One of the partners I was working for
14:35 took me to one side
You can continue the job you’re doing but you it will be boring and you won’t be paid much
ought to think about getting qualified as a lawyer
14:51 I was going out with a guy
We went to night classes together, not the most romantic thing
15:00 We split up half way through
WHEN DID YOU BECOME AMBITIOUS?
I love the law
15:22 Not just the black letter of the law
It’s really all about people and relationships
UNIVERSITY
15:46 Aware of the range of people at uni
15:53 including quite privileged backgrounds
15:58 Felt a bit daunted by that
Didn’t really know how to study
16:03 aware it was going to be quite tough
Having worked for 3 years, eligible for a full grant
16:16 Felt quite well off!
FOURTH DISC (Salisbury Hill)
16:26 It’s such an uplifting song
16:41 A strong message that unexpected things can turn out really well
GRADUATED FROM UNI (1977) → WHAT WAS THE PLAN
17:29 Saw you become a solicitor and become mother to 2
At the time you were expected to leave work when you had children
Would go in a couple of mornings a week
Things changed when then husband was made unemployed so clear that the sensible thing to do was for me to go back to work
18:04 How did you greet the prospect of going back to work
Not looking forward to it
18:12 Her (Glenys’ mother’s) approach was suitably robust
“You’ve spent years studying at the state’s expense, it’s time you went and paid it back”
Hard to be away from my children
→ led to first feeling of ambition: next time promotion opportunity comes up I’m going to apply
MOVE FROM PRIVATE LAW → CEO of criminal case review commission
Been working in the job for 10 years
Came to the realisation one morning:
19:02 I’m working really hard and I’m vastly underpaid
Got home, got a map out, drew a circle around where I was living at the time and said, the first opportunity that comes within that circle I’m going to apply for it
CEO
19:26 setting up from scratch
19:30 To review alleged miscarriages of justice
19:32 After the debacle of the Birmingham 6
19:42 Arrived to a huge backlog of case
A man who was hung for a murder, his family had appealed - widely believed he was innocent, but they found
20:00 we had irrefutable evidence that he had committed the crime
20:10 got an order from the government to exhume the body
20:14 that was a first
FIFTH DISC -
This piece has a great deal of resonance for me (foot & mouth disease)
FOOT & MOUTH
Makes sure that a good deal of regulations are adhered to
- it had been a really traumatic experience
Just had one day off - just time to go home and get your washing done. 7am, noon, 7pm stand up meetings. Private meetings with the PM.
Had to ask for a day off to get married.
SIXTH DISC
I was just so uplifted and moved
BECAME THE CHIEF REGULATOR OF EXAM BOARD
Very plain that something unfair had happened.
That’s a sober reflection for me that you can’t always make things right.
….set about finding out why (the variations had happened)
A good number of teachers had been over enthusiastic in the way teachers had marked students coursework.
You need to have very good poticital antennae
You need to take a measured view of the evidence
It requires a bit of hindsight, clearsight and foresight and a bit of luck to get that right.
SEVENTH DISC
They might say that they’d been stitched up by the police
Occasionally people say that they didn’t commit that crime because they were committing one that was much worse
WORKING IN THE DIGITAL SPACE
Exponential growth of artificial intelligence
This organisation, created by the gov, is trying to get a grip on that
Assume that people don’t know how data is used but do care
DAMEHOOD
Received Damehood
Loves being a dame!
Great that her hard work was recognised
EIGHTH DISC
Tongue in cheek aspect to it as well (men not really going off to war)
GOING TO ISLAND
A keen gardener
Would take some seeds